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, that there are essentially vigilante attacks on russian speakers in the east and south of ukraine. sergey lavrov defended russia's action by saying they're defending the fundamental right to light of -- right to life of the ethnic russians in those areas. is there any evidence that that is the case? >> i would not say that the lawlessness that does exist in some major cities is targeted toward russians or russian speakers. it's very difficult to distinguish who is russian and who is not. people generally here think of themselves as ukrainians and they can hold multiple identities, both as russians and as ukrainians at the same time. the relationship is so close. so i don't think it's targeted in that way. but there is clearly a spike of disorder and lawlessness that everyone is suffering under. >> nicolai petro, thank you so much for joining me. >> sure. >> joining me now is michael mcfaul, just stepped down last week as u.s. ambassador to russia. he's professor of political science at stanford university. ambassador, what is the next step here? it seems that this has escalated tremendously quickly. what
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